S3E3: Agency Experience With Mark Rodgers

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mK2Io5s-AHM

Roe and Don traveled over the river, through the SNOW and just shy of 2,000 miles to host Mark Rodgers of Trailstone Insurance on this episode of the Agency Navigators podcast!

Curious about the custom client experience at AgencyCFO? This episode highlights the day-to-day (and long-term) benefits of having a Custom Fractional CFO, the blind spots we highlight and eliminate, and the vast collaboration possibilities.

Catch this episode for a client perspective of who we are at AgencyCFO, what we do, and the value we can add to your agency!

Season 3 will conclude next week with a look at Industry Influence. Stay tuned!

Connect with us!

Meet us: www.agencycfo.com

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/theagencycfo 

Facebook: www.facebook.com/AgencyCFO

YouTube: www.youtube.com/@AgencyCFOAgencyNavigators 

Transcript

Roe Polczynski: [00:00:00] Thank you once again for joining us for the Agency Navigators podcast. I'm Ro. I'm Don. And today we've invaded his space. It's about time we put him on camera, Mark Rogers. Trailstone insurance. 

Mark Rodgers: Thanks for being here. 

Roe Polczynski: Thank you. 

Mark Rodgers: All the way over here to Colorado in the snow, 

Roe Polczynski: in the snow, we have snow in New York.

Roe Polczynski: We have snow here. We are truly snowbirds at this point. So today we're really, really going to dive deep on our relationship on our relationship, but really the whole fractional CFO experience. You've been with us a long time now. 

Mark Rodgers: Yeah. Started started the process back in 2020. Right. Why don't you hear about us?

Roe Polczynski: Yeah. 

Mark Rodgers: Richie Buchanan. He was I met him at an event someplace I a away or something. But anyway, he started bragging about, you know, the, the help that you guys were giving him. And, you know, in 2020, I think I reached out [00:01:00] probably in September of 20, I think is when we started it. And we had just launched a bunch of automation in 2019 and in 2019 had about seven million dollars of premium and about seven people involved in the agency.

Mark Rodgers: And in 2020, I think we wrote about six million more of premium, so we almost doubled and added another 10 or 12 people. And I started to freak out because I'm trying to sell and I'm trying to do all this other stuff and Richie's like, you need to call him. So. That's what I did. 

Don Polczynski: And I remember that call well, and I'll share with you my initial impression, you know, from a CFO perspective, I talked to a lot of agency owners and 90 percent of everything that goes on with an agency from one to another is very, very similar with some small differences.

Don Polczynski: When I talked to you, it was, Oh, he's doing a different model. He's got a different idea. He's got growth plans that are not [00:02:00] typical. And you hit a functioning model that was quite different from. Every other agency that I was aware with. Very different model. 

Roe Polczynski: Absolutely, and I want to interject a little bit about our processes.

Roe Polczynski: We never sell on the first call. We have this relationship building process and we do an assessment. And I went back and looked at those assessment notes and in Mark's, in quotes, Mark calls himself that it's the heart of a teacher. That's our sales 

Mark Rodgers: process, yep. And it just 

Roe Polczynski: resonated with us. And I knew there was a kindred spirit.

Mark Rodgers: Yeah, so heart of a teacher, you know, I don't, I don't want to sell anybody anything. I want them to ask us. Now, that doesn't mean we don't gently push and, and have that heart of a teacher. So, everything that we were doing in 2019, 2020 was really we'll get back to the model in a minute, but bringing on 1099s and most of them didn't have any insurance experience.

Mark Rodgers: And so I'm teaching them how to sell insurance. I'm teaching them that heart of a teacher model. And the [00:03:00] whole goal was educate somebody to the point where when they're done with the interview with us, they say, wow, I never knew that about insurance, or I can't wait to get the quotes back because you guys asked me questions that nobody else has, or you've educated me differently.

Mark Rodgers: And so that was really important for me is. I don't believe in hard selling anything. I've done that in previous careers and I hated it. You know, I used to say I used to teach people how to lie, cheat and steal as in the car business. So anyway, it was horrible and that's not what we do now. So it was yeah, that's, I was spending a lot of time teaching at the time and I think it was just kind of me, maybe an operations manager.

Mark Rodgers: I can't remember in 2020 or an office manager. 

Roe Polczynski: Office manager. It wasn't even an operation. 

Mark Rodgers: Yeah. So our model was bringing on 1099s. Because then I was growing on their money, right? And now we've switched away from that, and we're focused on W 2s. But at the time, our big issue was cash flow. You know, we only had, I think when we came to you guys, we only had [00:04:00] maybe 2 million in revenue?

Mark Rodgers: 1. 9? 

Roe Polczynski: Something like that? 

Mark Rodgers: And that's not a lot of money to pay people. You know, especially if we're going to lose 25 to 30 grand on the first year. So We, 2020, 21, 22, yeah, we were growing with 1099s and that put a ton of stress on the team, but we grew quite a bit. We're now, you know, bumping up on 50 million of premium and operating in seven states and a lot of changes, but we had to go away from that 1099 model.

Mark Rodgers: So if anybody has questions about it, he's got good answers because I broke the comp models and everything else as we were trying to figure out, okay, how do we continue this growth? And fund it with cash flow, and then start adding you know, a sales director, a HR recruiter, and then a marketing director, and operations manager.

Mark Rodgers: So, anyway, you guys have been there all along. 

Roe Polczynski: And you did it without any acquisitions. 

Mark Rodgers: That's right, yeah. 

Roe Polczynski: I mean, that is another key part. All organic. 

Don Polczynski: For, typically, for agency [00:05:00] CFO, one of the pieces of success, we're also teachers. And we teach business owners how all of the dots of their financial elements, how they interconnect.

Don Polczynski: And that's one of the secrets. So, so many business owners have said to me after the first year, now I understand how all the pieces fit together. When I first met you, though, it was a little different because I realized. I've got some learning to do here because, you know, the traditional benchmarks, 

Roe Polczynski: you 

Don Polczynski: know, some of the traditional financial benchmarks don't quite apply the same way, how you were going about it was from a financial picture, quite different.

Don Polczynski: And yet, I believed, I believed in you. I believe. After that 

Roe Polczynski: first assessment call, he's like, I want to be a part of this. Absolutely. He's going somewhere. You know, I 

Don Polczynski: talked to so many. Just a 

Mark Rodgers: different way. Just a different way. But not, not typical insurance [00:06:00] over the last hundred years. Correct. Now, I talked 

Don Polczynski: to a lot of business owners and they talked to me about, well, I'm going to grow.

Don Polczynski: I'm going to grow, do this. I'm going to grow this rate, this rate. Well, how? You knew how you were going to do it. And yeah, I said, you know, I told Roe. Look, we need to be along, along for the ride because, you know, Mark is different. He's got a different model. I believe he's going to do what he wants to.

Don Polczynski: He's going to be succeed in reaching these lofty goals. 

Mark Rodgers: Yeah. You know, any sales organization, right? How many leads do you have? How will do you close them? That propels you forward. And then you got to retain them in the insurance business, you know, so, you know, and thank God for renewals. Right. But That was, that was what I've always done in two different industries, was increase leads, increase your effectiveness, and then you grow.

Mark Rodgers: And then the 1099s were our model to get there. 

Don Polczynski: Yes. But, things have 

Roe Polczynski: changed. Things have changed. You [00:07:00] know, 

Don Polczynski: you figure out this model and you just you just use it forever. But that's not true. 

Mark Rodgers: No, well no. Yeah. Lather, rinse, repeat. I wish we could just do it from 7 million all the way up to 70 or 700.

Mark Rodgers: And 

Don Polczynski: then you realize, that doesn't work. 

Mark Rodgers: No, and that's, that's why I needed you guys, and that's why I reached out to you guys, because I needed that help to analyze, and, and so that I didn't have to, to, to think about all the little issues that I, you know, may have blinders to. 

Don Polczynski: And we see that so often that we tell owners, what got you, if you, if it's the first 10 million in premium, however you got to write that first 10 million dollar premium, it won't be the same way to get from 10 to 20 million.

Don Polczynski: And then from 20 to 30, 30 to 60, it's not just going to be, well, we'll just duplicate and double what we did. It doesn't work that way. 

Mark Rodgers: No, it doesn't. And, you know, we, you guys have really helped me, too. We just don't look at premium now, we look at revenue, right? CFOs hate premium, just so you all know. [00:08:00] It's revenue.

Mark Rodgers: But most, most agencies under a million in revenue talk about premium. You know, I call it revenue bands, and that's what you guys have helped me see is, okay, different revenue bands that demand different thought processes, you know, for staff, for compensation, you know. Things like that. And that's where you guys have really helped me learn that.

Roe Polczynski: And early on, you know, those calls, the development, us learning about you, and how I've seen you push us into the development of really complex financial models. 

Don Polczynski: Totally custom because you're the only one doing certain things. only you're doing them So it's not an off the shelf. We have, we, we listen to you and we say okay, we're gonna take that input.

Don Polczynski: We're gonna take it we're gonna gather some data and we're gonna build essentially a custom analysis because You're doing things that nobody else. 

Roe Polczynski: To be fair, the fun part of the calls is when he's doing a spreadsheet live and you're like, just give it to me, let [00:09:00] me type quicker. 

Mark Rodgers: Did you go to spreadsheet school or?

Mark Rodgers: I 

Don Polczynski: think I'm pretty 

Mark Rodgers: good. Yeah, and I think you could improve. Not, so, so you guys know, I'm not talking about. CFO stuff, I'm talking about, take a Phil Hamble and click it and fill, 

Roe Polczynski: yeah, just 

Mark Rodgers: how to copy a formula properly. 

Roe Polczynski: So let's, this is the fun part of, of this dynamic we've created between Trailstone and Agency CFO.

Roe Polczynski: It's actually the friendship between Mark Rowe and Don. I call it the 

Don Polczynski: relationship and the relationship has certainly changed since the first, the early year. And then as it's gone on, the relationship has grown and evolved. And even how we work, not only with you, we work with your team. 

Mark Rodgers: Yeah. So, you know, I mentioned before, we've been adding people to the leadership team.

Mark Rodgers: And so we do that monthly operating review call, earnings, and the whole team is on there because I want them to know what's going on. You are 

Roe Polczynski: so transparent. 

Mark Rodgers: [00:10:00] Yeah. And sometimes that's good. Sometimes that's bad. You see how mature a leader is when they know how much you make and they can, you know, be upset about that or whatever.

Mark Rodgers: But yeah, so we do that monthly operating review call, earnings call, and then there's another call where, and then many times I call you in between too. Or I'm calling you, like, okay, 

Roe Polczynski: Mark, wellness check. 

Mark Rodgers: Yeah, no doubt. So we have that second call where, you know, there's just agenda items that may not be P& L driven the same, but we want to talk about things on, you know, how it affects things here at the agency, personal life, income, balance sheet, those type of things too, so.

Roe Polczynski: In one of the hot topics last year, I want to transition into, Is the space we're actually in. You've graciously given us a free access to the studio. We're loving our time here, but there is a huge back story to all of this. 

Mark Rodgers: Yeah. You know yeah, when we, when we started, I was in about [00:11:00] 3, 800 square feet and you know, we wanted to move out of that model of the 10 99s because they were all remote, but they also, we couldn't teach them to do what we wanted.

Mark Rodgers: We could teach them. But we couldn't force them to do, you know, the heart of a teacher process as you brought up. So that was a big, big deal to say, okay, if we're going to move to W 2 producers, if we're going to move to account managers in house. I need space. And so in the same building, 4, 000 square feet came available, and it was intimidating.

Mark Rodgers: We were going to be doubling our rent, and yeah. If you guys hadn't 

Roe Polczynski: You had to lock it in for so many years. I mean, it was 

Mark Rodgers: Yep. And, you know, so then we were able to put some financial analysis to it. That was great. But then we just talk through, okay, what is your trajectory? What are you going to do with this?

Mark Rodgers: Are you actually going to fill it out? Are we going to make a studio like this? You know, those types of things. And so, you know, that's, you know, for, for an entrepreneur, you know, a lot of times it's lonely or a business owner is lonely because they don't have that [00:12:00] resource. And, you know, I tell a lot of insurance agency owners, especially hire a fractional CFO, you know, and obviously I'm plugging you guys or, or, As you've said, you're, you know, honorable competitors, but anyway, it you need that help and because you can't juggle all these balls, especially most people truly don't understand their P and L and balance sheet.

Mark Rodgers: You guys do. And so you have that there. So we don't have blinders that we make mistakes. That could cost your agency it's livelihood. 

Don Polczynski: Business ownership is lonely. And I'm gonna, I'll say it out to the world you know, I'm blessed to have a partner. It cuts down you know, having your spouse be your business partner takes away a lot of that.

Don Polczynski: Having somebody to talk to, we have each other to talk to. Most agency owners. 

Roe Polczynski: When I started RD Advisory Group, I left, You know the story, left full time paying jobs to go out on my own with my MBA and yet I still, even though I was a sole [00:13:00] proprietor, I had you to bounce ideas off of. It, it was so rare that when we had the opportunity to grab them and, launched agency CFO and we are officially agency CFO, all encompassing now the concept of just having someone there and how we've tried to transmit that and open it up to our agency owner partners.

Mark Rodgers: Yeah. You know, a lot of times I've been in other industries with a full time CFO and I still didn't have the same relationship. The relationship, okay, yes, the numbers were presented and we had earnings calls and those type of things, but being able to interpret that and know the backstory behind everything that's happening in the agency and my personal life, that's huge as well.

Mark Rodgers: So you guys are helping. And 

Roe Polczynski: the owner's mindset. 

Mark Rodgers: Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, a lot of times I, I talked to a lot of other, you know, not just an insurance and they're lonely. And I, same thing I say, you know, and lonely maybe is not the right thing, but you feel like you're on an [00:14:00] island. 

Don Polczynski: Absolutely. Very common.

Don Polczynski: So the two important points from agency CFO perspective about what we consider to be success. One is we don't want you losing sleep over your financials. We want you to have confidence that you, you have clarity. You understand where you are. You actually, you know, you've got enough cash to make payroll.

Don Polczynski: You know, I don't want any, any owner to be losing sleep. The second thing is, you know, there is no hard disconnect or line that separates the owner's personal life from the owner at the insurance agency. It's a blend. When something bad happens at the agency, you know, it has a negative personal effect.

Don Polczynski: When things are going great at the agency, you know, it has really good personal vibes. It's a blend. And you can't separate those two. 

Roe Polczynski: Who'd you learn that from? It is, it is true though. Absolutely. So success to me as 

Don Polczynski: a [00:15:00] CFO is far more than just helping you grow your bottom line. You've got to also have, be as Achieving whatever you call personal success, your personal goals.

Mark Rodgers: Yeah, you know I remember when we did that first intake, you guys asked what keeps me up at night. And, you know, I sleep pretty well, but there's lots of times when I'm stressed during work. And so really, that's what that second call is that I per month, you know, that we typically do. And we're talking about those issues.

Mark Rodgers: What, what are perceived issues on my part? Perceived issues on your guys's part blinders. What should we be talking about? What are we not talking about that we should be, you know? And so, but blending or, or looking at it through the filter of always what's best for me personally, as well as the company personally.

Don Polczynski: And I, I often inform the agency owners and I said, you know, you may not realize this. You know, when the, when your data, when your financials, you know, the month ends and we're pulling your, your [00:16:00] financial data, it's not, Oh no, we got to do another financial report. I cannot wait to see your results and nothing, nothing makes us happier when we have great results to report back to you.

Don Polczynski: That is what makes us happy. 

Mark Rodgers: And fortunately, you know, I've had those bad earnings calls in other industries since you guys, I think. Pretty much year over year, every month has been up. So we've been truly fortunate and blessed to have that. You know, it, I don't want it to happen. When we start going backwards in revenue, that's when I'm going to need even more help.

Don Polczynski: Absolutely. Absolutely. And you know, we are there and agree with you. Oftentimes, one of the things that we provide to our agencies is sometimes accountability and sometimes we have to give them a wake up call or a push or we wave the pink flag and if nothing happens, we wave the red flag and say, Hey, Got an issue here.

Roe Polczynski: And then sometimes this is in a row or down original. I think it was Lee Brower. [00:17:00] You, we've, we've had those conversations. You're looking forward, let's measure backwards. It's okay, we, you know, we will boost up in those moments. Absolutely. Now, in March, you did come to see us. It actually was the first time we met you in person, which was so cool.

Yeah, what, three 

Roe Polczynski: years? Years in. Via Zoom. Yeah, via Zoom. And you came and visited us as we were at a rental house for the winter and brought your lovely wife. But one of the cool things is you were watching us work and watching us innovate and be the entrepreneur. And that was the whole intelligence suite.

Roe Polczynski: You, you saw the first, he's like, you can't show him. I'm like, he, and he literally said, he's like, he is so smart and he's so into data. Are you sure you want to show him this? Yeah. And I was like, absolutely. Let's show it to him. 

Mark Rodgers: Yeah. Yeah. And you were only what, six weeks in or something at that point?

Mark Rodgers: Yeah, it was 

Don Polczynski: just early on. Early. But I could see immediately version one. 

Mark Rodgers: Yeah. You know, we've talked about it so many times. [00:18:00] AMS is, no matter which one, they cannot give you the data that you want, the way you want it, when you want it. And that's what you guys have done in that dashboard. Now I call the dashboard.

Mark Rodgers: Yes. You guys call it what 

Roe Polczynski: we call, yeah, it's the dashboard. Okay. It's the intelligence suite is the whole Intelligence suite package. The dashboard is a part of it. So 

Mark Rodgers: I call it the dashboard, but anyway, now I can dissect what's going on in my business and see by state, by line, revenue, premium, you know, mono, whatever.

Mark Rodgers: I can see it all there, and you guys can slice and dice it however I need it. And we kept 

Roe Polczynski: promising you, I will figure out your AMS, I will, yeah. Absolutely. And we have. We have. 

Don Polczynski: We've become very good at it, regardless of the AMS. Yeah. One of the most challenging, by the way. So you were, it was a challenge, but we've conquered it.

Don Polczynski: Absolutely. Because it's so important, and every time we, we, we stand up a dashboard, in a few minutes, we learn, we take a big step forward in understanding your agency. And we know that our owners are going to have the same experience. Because the [00:19:00] first time, within five minutes, a click here, click here, click here, you can see your book of business from so many dimensions that you could never, it would have taken you months to understand.

Don Polczynski: Now you can do it in minutes. 

Mark Rodgers: I love the pre builts too, where I can just click the buttons rather than, you know, we have other systems, they're SQL databases and you have to select these things and that's how you get the report. Well you can just program everything, click the button and you see it instantly, truly instantly.

Don Polczynski: We know the, from a number of perspectives, the metrics that probably matter to you most. And they're similar across most agencies. So we've pre built those so you don't have to build those. We know you're going to want to look at revenue per policy, or premium per policy, or policies per client. We have those pre built.

Mark Rodgers: Yeah, it's, I love the system, so. And now what, we're eight months beyond that, so it's, it's fully, yeah, fully functional. Trending. 

Don Polczynski: Now you're really getting a sense [00:20:00] of trends. And what we've seen at Agency CFO is that agency trends are crucial, because once they are established. They kind of stay on trend until something big happens to get it off, to change that inertia.

Mark Rodgers: Yeah, and if you don't know, how can you change in the first place? You know, people say, you know, how do you hit a target that you don't even know is a target? Well, this is looking backwards, but we can also slice and dice to look forward in the trends, too, in the near future. 

Roe Polczynski: And I can't wait for a future episode to give updates on all that we've accomplished together because this is truly just such a great relationship, and we just really, really are just so, so grateful and blessed to be here, first physically in person, this is awesome, we get to see you in your home state.

Mark Rodgers: Yeah, like I said, with snow, we're going up to Esses Park today, for the retreat, and so that should be fun too. Thank 

Don Polczynski: you for allowing us the use, and for joining us, and I [00:21:00] have to say, my impression of you was was right on. I believe that you would do it and I'm so proud to be a part of this. 

Mark Rodgers: Yeah, well thank you guys for the help.

Mark Rodgers: I wouldn't be here without you. You're very welcome. That's what we're here for. Thanks guys. 

Roe Polczynski: So, as always, thank you everyone for joining us. We truly appreciate all of you. Feedback row at agencycfo. com 

Don Polczynski: Just reach out to Don, Don at agencycfo. com 

Roe Polczynski: We are here, we are here definitely to make the industry we love better.

Don Polczynski: Alright. Take care. Be financially well. Bye. 

Roe Polczynski: Bye.